Scout Update Announcement

[Foodz]

http://store.steampowered.com/news/2249/

[Undakada (UOM)]

fuck yea

[salmonilla]

Nice, Foodz!
I've been waiting on news of this for a long time!
Kudos, dude!
Thanks of the url!

[StaFForD]

the sandman sounds sweeet

long range baseball to stop the invuln medic as the other guy runs forward outta range of the uber = hot

[Alfalfa]

WHAT THE FUCK

WHAT

WHAT

WHAT

ADJFIOAHSIOPDVGNJASKODFGJVASNIJDVFNASJIOPDNJFHJVGANSJPDFKOASDKOPVBJIOPASNOPEGIAW

Oh god Valve why this is the worst thing ever.

the sandman sounds sweeet

long range baseball to stop the invuln medic as the other guy runs forward outta range of the uber = hot

NO IT ISN'T.

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

I have my reservations about it but we'll see.  I loves me sum scoot.

[Kelreth]

I am already tempted to call shenanigans. The taking away of double jump is somewhat of an issue for scouts, but shit a ranged stun?! WTF is this DOTA?  

[Foodz]

I am already tempted to call shenanigans. The taking away of double jump is somewhat of an issue for scouts, but shit a ranged stun?! WTF is this DOTA?  

Official Blog:

http://www.teamfortress.com/

Ya appear to have trodden on a mine!
February 17, 2009 - Robin Walker

The news you've all been waiting for: The Scout Update!

Also, we released an update yesterday with a change that needs some clarification. The update notes said this:

    * Sticky bombs now get a reduced close range damage ramp up (like Rocket Launcher & Syringe Gun)

From the response we got, there's some confusion around this, so we thought it'd be good to do a post that explained what's going on here.

In TF2, almost all damage done to players is modified based on the distance from the player to the enemy who did the damage. There are several reasons why this is done, but the general purpose of it is that it makes close combat resolve faster than long range combat, giving approaching players more time to make tactical decisions (like whether to engage or retreat). The ramp centers around the 512 units (roughly 40 feet) range, and linearly remaps damage done from 150% at 0 units down to 50% at >1024 units. So if you're fighting someone closer than 512 units, you're doing extra damage.

Sticky bombs have an additional complexity on top of this: they use the distance modification for the first 5 seconds of their life, and then turn it off. This is because it's generally a dual purpose weapon: used offensively like a rocket launcher, and defensively to create traps. The 5 second rule essentially means distance matters in the offensive mode, but not at all in the defensive. So if you're a trap laying Demoman, you don't need to get near the stickies when you set them off.

So, yesterdays update reduced the amount of bonus damage that the stickies earned at close range during that first 5 seconds of their life. Their old distance-based damage ramp range was 150% -> 50% variance around the base 120 damage, and the update reduced that to 115% -> 50%. Here's a handy graph with the details, and it shows how the remap only affects damage closer than 512 units.



Why did we do this? We didn't think that the Demoman was overpowered at medium & long ranges, where the charge up time provides an existing penalty. If we did a straight damage reduction across the board, we would affect that. In addition, by weakening the Demoman specifically at short range, we've created a weakness that enemies can take advantage of in combat, and makes the Demoman wary of specific enemy classes (like the Scout and Pyro).

[Mr.MiYuggi]

but the demo was already needing to be weary of pyros. if a pyro runs toward a demo in a strafe pattern, there's not much a demo can do.

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

but the demo was already needing to be weary of pyros. if a pyro runs toward a demo in a strafe pattern, there's not much a demo can do.

It's bottlin time!

[Combat Wombat]

but the demo was already needing to be weary of pyros. if a pyro runs toward a demo in a strafe pattern, there's not much a demo can do.

It's bottlin time!

Whenever I can pull that off, I feel so good. Usually I just drop stickies at my feet and stupid pyros run into them. But still, demos were never ever ever overpowered at close range.

[Foodz]

but the demo was already needing to be weary of pyros. if a pyro runs toward a demo in a strafe pattern, there's not much a demo can do.

It's bottlin time!

Whenever I can pull that off, I feel so good. Usually I just drop stickies at my feet and stupid pyros run into them. But still, demos were never ever ever overpowered at close range.

l2bottle naga

[Kelreth]

If I'm a demo and a pyro is attacking me I switch to the grenade rounds and blow the pyro's face off. Its not that big of a deal, scouts are still a problem but those fast bastards are always a problem

[Combat Wombat]

True that.

[Kenyan Bee Thief]

Demos need to have a weakness other than snipers.  Besides, stickies were getting 1 hit kills on anyone who got in their faces.  I think this patch makes a lot of sense. Stickies were meant to be a primarily defensive weapon.  Now all the demos are going to have to learn to use the grenade launcher instead of backtracking while laying stickies.

Also, the sandman is probably only going to be used by ultra shitty scouts who don't realize the double jump is the only thing that saves you from pyros and soldiers.

[nothingclever]

I just hope there aren't too many "ultra shitty scouts" so I'm not getting stunned a billion times as a heavy since I'm a big target.

[TripleZM]

The sandman... is fucking awesome by the sounds of it. That one weapon might just make the scout my favorite class, because I can't aim for SHIT as most of you guys know But if I mannage to hit one of the twats on the other team, i'm going to orgasm. By the sound of it, it could make a scout and a sniper a pretty good team.

[Kelreth]

The Sandman might just be more outrageous than the Backburner when it gave +50 hp.

I hate stun effects personally, this could ruin the game for me

[TripleZM]

The Sandman might just be more outrageous than the Backburner when it gave +50 hp.

I hate stun effects personally, this could ruin the game for me

Still, it would be fucking hilarious if you manage to compression blow the ball back at the scout and stun him. Thought I have found one problem. What if the scout just chooses to spam stun balls at the enemy till he dies? He wouldn't be able to move, and if we're able to stack the stun time, the scout would be the only class you'd need to play. Or if the ball doesn't do damage, the scout could still just do a stun 'n' shoot pattern. In other words. Say the scout hits someone with the ball. All he'd have to do is shoot him with the pistol a bit, switch back to the sandman, stun him again, and repeat.

[StaFForD]

that is if none of the other team comes and kills him

and i think the pyro will be able to shoot the ball back with the compression blast, it would only make sense since you can compression blast everything from rockets to flare gun shots

also i dont think the stun time will stack, that would be too much

[TripleZM]

that is if none of the other team comes and kills him

and i think the pyro will be able to shoot the ball back with the compression blast, it would only make sense since you can compression blast everything from rockets to flare gun shots

also i dont think the stun time will stack, that would be too much

Lets hope it wont. And I hope we can blow the balls back at them. Or better yet, make it so if everyone times their melee right, they can send it right back. That way it would be a pretty balanced weapon.

[nothingclever]

could make a scout and a sniper a pretty good team.

They better not work too well together or no one will be able to move up the map to a point.

[*Kajisan*]

bONK

[3xtacy]

So... it's wednesday.. where is the next update .

[Combat Wombat]

I was wondering that myself...

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

Valve-time wednesdays take place on tuesday
a month later.

[Mr.MiYuggi]

Valve-time wednesdays take place on tuesday
a month later.

haha yeah i guess if i got bored i could take a walk to the valve building by my house and ask them lol

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

Looks like they did update but they screwed up the page layout.  the link is in the top left corner. and doesn't seem to work.
Its two new maps.
Arena_watchtower and CP_junction.
They'll prolly fix it soon.

[Stobbin]

Oh christ...  Junction.

That is all.

[StaFForD]

its fixed now

Who's the tough guy now, huh tough guy?

[Alfalfa]

The sandman... is fucking awesome by the sounds of it. That one weapon might just make the scout my favorite class, because I can't aim for SHIT as most of you guys know But if I mannage to hit one of the twats on the other team, i'm going to orgasm. By the sound of it, it could make a scout and a sniper a pretty good team.

Ur a faget.

[LiquidSnake]

hmm yea i remember we tried playing junction a few times a while back. want too great. maybe they changed some stuff.

[Combat Wombat]

I was turned off by the fact that they related it to gravel pit... I don't really care for gravel pit.

[Luko]

I'd like to see how many balls the scout has.

[3xtacy]

If a scout can already not be caught up to... why can he stun people o.o.

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

Site updated with similiar problems as yesterdays.

[StaFForD]

energy drink wtf?

[3xtacy]

Lame =l.

[Kelreth]

Still, it would be fucking hilarious if you manage to compression blow the ball back at the scout and stun him. Thought I have found one problem. What if the scout just chooses to spam stun balls at the enemy till he dies? He wouldn't be able to move, and if we're able to stack the stun time, the scout would be the only class you'd need to play. Or if the ball doesn't do damage, the scout could still just do a stun 'n' shoot pattern. In other words. Say the scout hits someone with the ball. All he'd have to do is shoot him with the pistol a bit, switch back to the sandman, stun him again, and repeat.

That is why I hate stun effects. Imagine getting stunned right out fo spawn and then head shoted, then spawn stun head shot.

I am def going to go spy at some point and start eating snipers again

If a scout can already not be caught up to... why can he stun people o.o.

haha that is a good question as well

valve must be bored

[3xtacy]

The energy drink looks like it gives a boost for a short while, then it wears you down and makes you tired.  That could be a cool change to the scout, but it could also be the opposite.  I doubt that the stunning will be too powerful.  It is probably just a better form of a long range weapon that they are trying out, and if it is overpowered then they will nerf it.  Hopefully the concepts in game are better than they look x.x.

[Stobbin]

I bet this makes disguising as scout worthwhile.

[Kelreth]

I bet this makes disguising as scout worthwhile.

depends will the scout disguise have the sand man or the normal bat? The normal bat would give it away

[Combat Wombat]

Don't know what to think about that one. I still don't really like the idea of the Sandman...

[Undakada (UOM)]

Uh-oh loooks like Bonk!'s gonna be Shendileer's new "CAUSE THAT WOULD BE FUNNY" thing.

Wow I'd never replace my precious pistol fuck you guys

[Mushroom3691]

Energy drinks, new bats, Jesus H Christ.

Welcome to hell, boys.

[TripleZM]

Yeah, the pistol is a great weapon for the scout, replacing it is kinda a bad idea. Still, Bonk! ED could be better. For example, the pistol is usually used for picking off enemies you've already wounded at a distance. Bonk would help you get in there faster, without having to waist time with the pistol. But this is where valve fucked up again. Think about it. Replacing the pistol makes the scout the only class that is a short range class only, besides the pyro but his flamer might as well be a fuckin medium distance weapon. The Pyro has a shotgun, which is made for medium range. Or his flare gun, which can be long ranged if used right. I suppose the scattergun could be used as a medium ranged weapon, but it's not as great as the pistol. I heard the scattergun has more of a wider spread than the regular shotgun that the other classes carry. Then there's the bat, which I don't even have to explain. I'll let you know right now. If you're a Bonk ED user when this update comes, you're fucked when a Pyro shows up unless if you surprise buttshex his ass.

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

Sand man seems like it can go pretty long ranges.  And then of course theres the final unlock coming out too.

[Alfalfa]

I'm ok with this.

ALSO: DOUBLE PAYLOAD RACES CONFIRMED FOR NEW GAME MODE.





Awesome achievement pic

[StaFForD]

that would be teh uber gay

double payload races...

fuck that shit

/uninstall

[Deagle]

. Bonk would help you get in there faster, without having to waist time with the pistol.

lawl

[3xtacy]

Yeah, the pistol is a great weapon for the scout, replacing it is kinda a bad idea. Still, Bonk! ED could be better. For example, the pistol is usually used for picking off enemies you've already wounded at a distance. Bonk would help you get in there faster, without having to waist time with the pistol. But this is where valve fucked up again. Think about it. Replacing the pistol makes the scout the only class that is a short range class only, besides the pyro but his flamer might as well be a fuckin medium distance weapon. The Pyro has a shotgun, which is made for medium range. Or his flare gun, which can be long ranged if used right. I suppose the scattergun could be used as a medium ranged weapon, but it's not as great as the pistol. I heard the scattergun has more of a wider spread than the regular shotgun that the other classes carry. Then there's the bat, which I don't even have to explain. I'll let you know right now. If you're a Bonk ED user when this update comes, you're fucked when a Pyro shows up unless if you surprise buttshex his ass.

I agree with everything you are saying, but it is valve's job to maintain balance between the classes and encourage the roles that the classes play.  The scout is supposed to be close ranged.  His weapons are very devastating if used correctly, and they are meant to be challenging to use from further away to encourage scouts to take advantage of their maneuvering skills and double speed in order to sweep the whole team to get to the control point or cart.  Now, obviously there are going to be some creative new concepts brought about from these updates, but surely there will be people who maintain the current form of gameplay that the scout brings to the game.  Take the pyro update for example.  Several people use all three of the update weapons.  I, however, use only the axetinguisher.  I can take advantage of the fact that if I sneak up on another player I can kill him or her with the same amount of time with just a quick flick of the weapons.  The flare gun to me is useless since in my opinion the pyro should get as close to the enemy as possible, and the compression air blast and non-downgraded fire (when not behind the enemy) is a huge plus.  There are several pros and cons that will be debated among the updated and current weapons.

The scout's role is to 'clean up' the battle field and rush towards the control point or cart.  These updates will most likely target these maneuvers in order to encourage their use, or reward one for doing so.  I guess only time will tell what else this update has to offer, and surely it won't all be bad.  These ideas are creative, and although I am not a fan, others may enjoy these updates.

<3.


Edit:



I have a feeling that this foreshadows the aftereffects of the energy drink, but I could be wrong.


Edit2:


Also, just to share some ideas I had for scout updates...

Bat replacement:  One Hit Wonder

A slightly more blunt, black bat with white designs.

40% slower rate of fire.
25% more damage.
45% chance of critical hits.

Critical hits, instead of doing more damage, would knock the enemy back several spaces.  This could be detrimental to capturing a point that the enemy is blocking, and/or could enable the scout to defend the cart or a control point on the battle field.

Pistol replacement:  Gauntlets

Two brass knuckles (used almost like the k.g.b).

35% slower rate of fire than the original bat.
55 damage (no critical hits unless induced by kritzkreig).

When holding the intelligence or in the range of a control point or a cart (to cap), the gauntlets get a 100% critical hit ratio.

Again, this encourages the scout to rush towards the point/cart in order to push/capture it for his or her team.  I know, several people are against another melee weapon since the pistol can be very useful, but in my opinion it would be best to take away the pistol in order for the scout to become even more involved with capturing the intelligence or pushing/capturing a cart/point.

I guess by posting these I am justifying valve's reasons to make such updates.  Hopefully they have a really good scatter gun update.  Honestly, it is very hard to think of updates for several classes, especially without overpowering them or replacing their roles.  


<3.

[Shadowmonk3y]

ATOMIC BONK!

[StaFForD]

scouts are bitches

[Kelreth]

that would be teh uber gay

double payload races...

fuck that shit

/uninstall

fuck that

stun effects

/uninstall

[Combat Wombat]

I think I'm with Kelreth here.

[Luko]

I have no ACTUAL opinion on this update until it's actually released.
Neither should any of you, don't debate 'till you update
Energy drinks and baseball does sound a little too American for me though.

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

They sound more japanese than anything else to me.

[Kelreth]

Energy drinks and baseball does sound a little too American for me though.

lol isn't the scout supposed to be from the north east of the US? I wouldn't be surprised if they gave him something more amusing to hit people with, like a phili cheese steak sandvich

[Combat Wombat]

He's from Boston. He should throw bowls of clam chowder.

[Kelreth]

He's from Boston. He should throw bowls of clam chowder.

....not sure which is worse bowls of clam chowder or baseballs

[Luko]

Well, kitchenware has always been a personal favorite when it comes to projectiles
and it would leave an exceptional stain too.

[HENTAL1TY]

more like the f-ing sandlot than a friggin sandman! I mean cmon, this isn't mario 64 here people! Wait...what was I just talking about?

[TripleZM]

Yeah, the pistol is a great weapon for the scout, replacing it is kinda a bad idea. Still, Bonk! ED could be better. For example, the pistol is usually used for picking off enemies you've already wounded at a distance. Bonk would help you get in there faster, without having to waist time with the pistol. But this is where valve fucked up again. Think about it. Replacing the pistol makes the scout the only class that is a short range class only, besides the pyro but his flamer might as well be a fuckin medium distance weapon. The Pyro has a shotgun, which is made for medium range. Or his flare gun, which can be long ranged if used right. I suppose the scattergun could be used as a medium ranged weapon, but it's not as great as the pistol. I heard the scattergun has more of a wider spread than the regular shotgun that the other classes carry. Then there's the bat, which I don't even have to explain. I'll let you know right now. If you're a Bonk ED user when this update comes, you're fucked when a Pyro shows up unless if you surprise buttshex his ass.

I agree with everything you are saying, but it is valve's job to maintain balance between the classes and encourage the roles that the classes play.  The scout is supposed to be close ranged.  His weapons are very devastating if used correctly, and they are meant to be challenging to use from further away to encourage scouts to take advantage of their maneuvering skills and double speed in order to sweep the whole team to get to the control point or cart.  Now, obviously there are going to be some creative new concepts brought about from these updates, but surely there will be people who maintain the current form of gameplay that the scout brings to the game.  Take the pyro update for example.  Several people use all three of the update weapons.  I, however, use only the axetinguisher.  I can take advantage of the fact that if I sneak up on another player I can kill him or her with the same amount of time with just a quick flick of the weapons.  The flare gun to me is useless since in my opinion the pyro should get as close to the enemy as possible, and the compression air blast and non-downgraded fire (when not behind the enemy) is a huge plus.  There are several pros and cons that will be debated among the updated and current weapons.

The scout's role is to 'clean up' the battle field and rush towards the control point or cart.  These updates will most likely target these maneuvers in order to encourage their use, or reward one for doing so.  I guess only time will tell what else this update has to offer, and surely it won't all be bad.  These ideas are creative, and although I am not a fan, others may enjoy these updates.

<3.

Very good points, I guess the scout is a hit and run class.  And even if I am saying replacing the pistol is fail, I'll probably be using the drink to .

. Bonk would help you get in there faster, without having to waist time with the pistol.

lawl

But besides that, what I ment is that the pistol isn't the most accurate weapon, chasing him with Bonk ED and blasting him with the scattergun is quicker.

Edit: You're a boob StaFForD.

[HENTAL1TY]

lol

[Creep Gnome]

They haven't even announced what the stuff does yet, how could you be debating what's better if you don't know what the new "weapons" do?

[StaFForD]

yeah they have

[3xtacy]

Btw, I remember cp_junction as well.  I didn't mind it too much, but it was slightly annoying.

[Dominator]

We tested that map awhile ago.

Liquid reminded me of it.  We all agreed we didn't really like it.

[StaFForD]

it just updated

cp_egypt and cp_fastlane update

[Dominator]

I've never officially played egypt.

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

You missed the best part!

Classes with the ability to ascend rapidly (Soldiers, Demomen, and Scouts using the new scattergun unlockable )

SCOOT SCATTERGUN ROCKET JUMP! FUCK YEAH!

[Kelreth]

scouts are going to be interesting, this rocket jumping might convince me to over look the stun effects

cause u know big jump then double jump, hilarity will result

[StaFForD]

did you notice one of the scout achievements?

Dodgers 1, Giants 0: Kill an enemy Heavy and take his Sandvich.

YOU CAN STEAL SANDVICHES

[TripleZM]

You missed the best part!

Classes with the ability to ascend rapidly (Soldiers, Demomen, and Scouts using the new scattergun unlockable )

SCOOT SCATTERGUN ROCKET JUMP! FUCK YEAH!

That.... Is fucking arsesome...


Also

"Out of the Park: Bat an enemy 25 meters."


AHAHAHAAAA! This is going to be awesome.

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

did you notice one of the scout achievements?

Dodgers 1, Giants 0: Kill an enemy Heavy and take his Sandvich.

YOU CAN STEAL SANDVICHES

You could always steal sandvitches.  Kill a heavy with it out and pick it up.

The also released the name for the scatter gun.

Kill 50 enemies from behind with the Force-A-Nature.

[Alfalfa]

You missed the best part!

Classes with the ability to ascend rapidly (Soldiers, Demomen, and Scouts using the new scattergun unlockable )

SCOOT SCATTERGUN ROCKET JUMP! FUCK YEAH!

WHAT THE FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

[Luko]

cp_egypt looks really fun, but it seems a little hard on the eyes.
Also seems like there are alot of perches and excellent camping spots up above.
Get some shindileers up in that bitch,

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

Its a pretty fun map, with a very different last cap point.  I hope we play it.

[Kelreth]

egypt is fun, being a spy on egypt when defending is even better

[Geno]

It's a Trap!!!

[Kenyan Bee Thief]

So in order to make up for losing the double jump while holding the sandman in your inventory, you get a pseudo rocket jump with the "force of nature".  And here I thought the new energy drink was going to be the replacement escape mechanism.

Anyone else notice the green text in the picture of the scout under the effects of Bonk! ED saying "MISS" similarly to "Critical Hit"?  I'm Wondering if there's going to be some kind of evasion to bullet type damage. Could be interesting, but it's just speculation.

[Stobbin]

So if you kill a heavy while he's got a sandwich out... you get health if you pick it up.

If you kill a scout with an energy drink... what happens if you pick that up?

[Shadowmonk3y]

So if you kill a heavy while he's got a sandwich out... you get health if you pick it up.

If you kill a scout with an energy drink... what happens if you pick that up?

MAGIc!

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

Anyone else notice the green text in the picture of the scout under the effects of Bonk! ED saying "MISS" similarly to "Critical Hit"?  I'm Wondering if there's going to be some kind of evasion to bullet type damage. Could be interesting, but it's just speculation.

I saw that too. That plus the achievement artful dodger (Dodge 1000 damage in a single life using your Bonk! Atomic Punch) led me to the same conclusion.

[Kenyan Bee Thief]

So if you kill a heavy while he's got a sandwich out... you get health if you pick it up.

If you kill a scout with an energy drink... what happens if you pick that up?

It would be a total bitch if you had to drink it when you walked over it, so I would guess it'll just give metal/ammo seeing as the can is aluminum.

[Zoma]

I would've rather seen Caltrop instead... (thing that does a little bit of damage and slows the enemy down when they step on it. Think landmines that slow you down.)

[Luko]

Anyone else notice the green text in the picture of the scout under the effects of Bonk! ED saying "MISS" similarly to "Critical Hit"?  I'm Wondering if there's going to be some kind of evasion to bullet type damage. Could be interesting, but it's just speculation.

DODGE, MISS, PARRY!
I never thought I'd see WoW incorporated into this game.

[Kelreth]

Argh so the scout will be able to stun, still jump really high and dodge bullets? Ya thats not going to be broked as fuck as time soon

[nothingclever]

If they let the heavy shoot eye lasers then I won't mind.

[Alfalfa]

Sooo.. the achievements got released...

Someone gonna make a map to grind for them? *cough* Stobbin *cough*

[Stobbin]

http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/81734

Someone beat me to it.  Needs unlimited intel capping though.

[Boba fett]

I just got one hope. Can the pyro airblast deflect the sandman?

[omfgcows]

I just got one hope. Can the pyro airblast deflect the sandman?

lets both hope so
not that i could deflect anything with my ping

[Kenyan Bee Thief]

Argh so the scout will be able to stun, still jump really high and dodge bullets? Ya thats not going to be broked as fuck as time soon

I imagine he won't be able to dodge explosives or fire.  Additionally, there's always the withdrawal period when he runs out of Bonk! ED.

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

Prolly can't dodge melee either. Which is what i switch to when i see a scoot come barelling down at me.

[3xtacy]

Argh so the scout will be able to stun, still jump really high and dodge bullets? Ya thats not going to be broked as fuck as time soon

I imagine he won't be able to dodge explosives or fire.  Additionally, there's always the withdrawal period when he runs out of Bonk! ED.

Yes.  They most likely made him able to dodge bullets in order to help him counter the heavy (which could easily rip him to shreds but especially well with Natascha).

[Kelreth]

Eh i just dont like the idea of a scout being able to possibly super jump and then double jump

[Boba fett]

That mean its shotgun time for pyro!

[3xtacy]

That mean its shotgun time for pyro!

No axetinguish .

[Bungie]

Force A Nature i suspect will be a gravity gun of some sort