A good read involving balance, etc.

[Creep Gnome]

WARNING FOR IDIOTS AND PEOPLE WITH NO ATTENTION SPAN:
It's a relatively long post.
http://communityfortress.com/tf2/blog/kuipers-17-pages-on-team-fortress-2.php

I really hope Valve reads this at some point.

[3xtacy]

F1

Excellent read.

[StaFForD]

props for the guy who wrote that

awesome read, didnt even notice it was that long because i was so absorbed into it

[Shadowmonk3y]

he made tf2 all smart and unfun and my brain hurts from that and the GRAPH MAN WTF IS WITH THE GRAPHS

[Combat Wombat]

I really like his ideas for the Engineer's sentries. Offensive Engie is way more fun.

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

Thats why i have despised engie until recently where geno and I played tag team forward engies

[Stobbin]

Where is the link for page 2?

[Kelreth]

I liked that

and the part on the pyro was nice. I hadn't noticed the buff he talked about though, lol

[Protobender]

this read was epic, good stuf in there
i like the demo parts as with his suggestions to the engies

[Combat Wombat]

I found another good read. It's also pretty long.

http://www.teamfortress2fort.com/upload/tf2.pdf

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

I found another good read. It's also pretty long.

http://www.teamfortress2fort.com/upload/tf2.pdf

He lost me at "the original bat is useless"

[Kelreth]

I found another good read. It's also pretty long.

http://www.teamfortress2fort.com/upload/tf2.pdf

He lost me at "the original bat is useless"

O_o

original bat useless? right and the medic gun sucks for healing people

[Protobender]

I found another good read. It's also pretty long.

http://www.teamfortress2fort.com/upload/tf2.pdf

He lost me at "the original bat is useless"

O_o

original bat useless? right and the medic gun sucks for healing people

this

[Undakada (UOM)]

A good read involving balance, etc.

that reminds me

[3xtacy]

I found another good read. It's also pretty long.

http://www.teamfortress2fort.com/upload/tf2.pdf

Not as good.  The grammar mistakes were horrible.  I wanted to stab my face off at one point.  It's understandable to have a few, but ffs!

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

There were legitimate points but he looks at tf2 much to scientifically.  This is a game and the other article understood that.  People would rather have fun than 100% balance.  The guy stated he was CEVO and it definitely shows.  

[Combat Wombat]

You are both correct, and I definitely did not agree with all his points, but I did find it interesting. He had some good ideas (and some bad).

[Creep Gnome]

I definitely disagree with his statement that unlocks should be designed for competitive play.
It's fine to have them test it, because as he said, it shows the true potential, but I think the weapons should be geared more towards casual/pub play.

I can't say the Huntsman is exactly 'balanced', either. It's a fast projectile, has a predictable arc(easy-to-use), almost-any-range, charges very quickly, and is almost guranteed to kill the target on contact.
....wait, didn't he say the Sandman was unbalanced because of that? And doesn't the Huntsman fire FASTER than the Sandman?

[Mama Luigi]

I definitely disagree with his statement that unlocks should be designed for competitive play.
It's fine to have them test it, because as he said, it shows the true potential, but I think the weapons should be geared more towards casual/pub play.

I can't say the Huntsman is exactly 'balanced', either. It's a fast projectile, has a predictable arc(easy-to-use), almost-any-range, charges very quickly, and is almost guranteed to kill the target on contact.
....wait, didn't he say the Sandman was unbalanced because of that? And doesn't the Huntsman fire FASTER than the Sandman?

Good, Im not the only one that thinks the huntsman is unbalanced.

[3xtacy]

I definitely disagree with his statement that unlocks should be designed for competitive play.
It's fine to have them test it, because as he said, it shows the true potential, but I think the weapons should be geared more towards casual/pub play.

I can't say the Huntsman is exactly 'balanced', either. It's a fast projectile, has a predictable arc(easy-to-use), almost-any-range, charges very quickly, and is almost guranteed to kill the target on contact.
....wait, didn't he say the Sandman was unbalanced because of that? And doesn't the Huntsman fire FASTER than the Sandman?

Good, Im not the only one that thinks the huntsman is unbalanced.

Yeah, I agree.  It's almost just as instant as the sniper rifle, but you don't have the dense view of the scope and it has quicker charging and less limited movement because you aim instantly.

However, it is also a projectile and can be reflected by the air blast.  It is also fairly easy to dodge whereas you cannot dodge the sniper rifle bullet.  I also find myself feeling a bit safer up close, but if you miss you're basically fucked.

Eh.. dunno.

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

I think huntsman is good as is.  Luigi you play pyro, just practice airblasting arrows.

Copy and pasted from other thread because i thought it was this one:

Scout is the class that needs to be changed the most.

Bonk! needs to either die or have a massive overhaul.  Adding the use of the weapons at an accuracy drop could do it, adding capturing/defending while using it, or just plain old running faster with no cool down afterwards would be good.

Sandman can stay to an extent.  The ball should go though.  If valve wants to keep the stun mechanic go ahead but replace crit chance with a medium length stun chance.  This could be a very, very interesting use in tandem with the kritzkrieg.  Add double jump back but lose the x2 capture or possibly just run at the speed of a medic.

Force a Nature is closest to balanced but still not there.  The point of this weapon isn't its power, its the actual force.  I would make it even more inaccurate and drop the power back to the original.  That way people cant run through and shoot everything.  In its place the pushing mechanic should be fixed to what it is intended and most likely augmented.  Allow the second shot to actually allow for force jumping as well but possibly not as much as the first.  Force of nature isn't so much a weapon as a very strong means of getting around.  Used right it makes the scout move faster than he runs so getting up close should be easier but you have to make the remaining shot count.

[Mama Luigi]

I think huntsman is good as is.  Luigi you play pyro, just practice airblasting arrows.

Copy and pasted from other thread because i thought it was this one:

Scout is the class that needs to be changed the most.

Bonk! needs to either die or have a massive overhaul.  Adding the use of the weapons at an accuracy drop could do it, adding capturing/defending while using it, or just plain old running faster with no cool down afterwards would be good.

Sandman can stay to an extent.  The ball should go though.  If valve wants to keep the stun mechanic go ahead but replace crit chance with a medium length stun chance.  This could be a very, very interesting use in tandem with the kritzkrieg.  Add double jump back but lose the x2 capture or possibly just run at the speed of a medic.

Force a Nature is closest to balanced but still not there.  The point of this weapon isn't its power, its the actual force.  I would make it even more inaccurate and drop the power back to the original.  That way people cant run through and shoot everything.  In its place the pushing mechanic should be fixed to what it is intended and most likely augmented.  Allow the second shot to actually allow for force jumping as well but possibly not as much as the first.  Force of nature isn't so much a weapon as a very strong means of getting around.  Used right it makes the scout move faster than he runs so getting up close should be easier but you have to make the remaining shot count.

Its just so hard air blasting them with all this lag...

[Creep Gnome]

I think huntsman is good as is.  Luigi you play pyro, just practice airblasting arrows.

Yeah, that's a good solution. What should people who aren't currently playing pyro do, continue to be one-shotted?
The Huntsman didn't solve the issue they had with snipers; instead of being oneshotted by someone across the map, you're being oneshotted by someone around the corner, or down the hallway, etc. You still get the feeling of "There was nothing I could've done"
And if the Huntsman Sniper doesn't headshot you? You're still either dead or nearly dead, depending on your class, faced with a Sniper who is readying another Doom Arrow, at full health.

[Combat Wombat]

I think huntsman is good as is.  Luigi you play pyro, just practice airblasting arrows.

Yeah, that's a good solution. What should people who aren't currently playing pyro do, continue to be one-shotted?
The Huntsman didn't solve the issue they had with snipers; instead of being oneshotted by someone across the map, you're being oneshotted by someone around the corner, or down the hallway, etc. You still get the feeling of "There was nothing I could've done"
And if the Huntsman Sniper doesn't headshot you? You're still either dead or nearly dead, depending on your class, faced with a Sniper who is readying another Doom Arrow, at full health.

That's really no worse than a bodyshot from a sniper with the rifle. Except now you're close enough where you can more reasonably engage him.

[3xtacy]

I think huntsman is good as is.  Luigi you play pyro, just practice airblasting arrows.

Yeah, that's a good solution. What should people who aren't currently playing pyro do, continue to be one-shotted?
The Huntsman didn't solve the issue they had with snipers; instead of being oneshotted by someone across the map, you're being oneshotted by someone around the corner, or down the hallway, etc. You still get the feeling of "There was nothing I could've done"
And if the Huntsman Sniper doesn't headshot you? You're still either dead or nearly dead, depending on your class, faced with a Sniper who is readying another Doom Arrow, at full health.

That's really no worse than a bodyshot from a sniper with the rifle. Except now you're close enough where you can more reasonably engage him.

Exactly.  Realize that the sniper has virtually no defenses in close combat besides jarate and the kukri.  It's a support class, it supports other players, not itself.

[Creep Gnome]

But the Huntsman charges so fast and deals so much damage that you probably won't kill the sniper, or will just barely survive.

[3xtacy]

But the Huntsman charges so fast and deals so much damage that you probably won't kill the sniper, or will just barely survive.

I agree, but if he or she misses, you have a good chance of killing that player.

However, if you do pursue this the player could simply throw jarate at you and let his or her teammates do the dirty work while he or she withdraws back into his hiding spot.