An Idea for the Old Server

[Combat Wombat]

A while back, some TD members expressed an interest in competitive play. I had a thought: we could arrange ourselves into two teams of 6, organize a time, and have a TD 6v6 match in the old server. 3xtacy presented to me his idea, which would be to have 12 players on no set team, but with captains. The captains would then melee fight for first pick, then choose teams from the remaining players. Is anybody else interested in this? I thought it'd be a nice chance to try out some serious competitive play without the intense atmosphere of a tourney. Please let me know your thoughts.

[3xtacy]

Current Rules:

The current rules are:


Each team will consist of 6 players.

There is a limit of one of each of the following classes: Demoman, Medic.

There is a limit of two of any of the other classes.

Class switching is allowed during gameplay.

No Random Crits

No Damage Spread

Teams will be picked through a PUG (Pick Up Game):  
"Two team leaders will melee battle with the same class.  The player who wins will get first pick and they switch back and forth until every spectating player is chosen for a team.  At this time each team will situate their class picks using team chat.  When everyone is ready the games will start and the chosen maps will be played.  (PUG)"





Pending Changes:


Team Scramble at end of Match (new teams chosen)


Restricted Weapons:

Sandman




People who are interested in participating in this idea:

Combat Wombat
3xtacy
Creeping Gnome
Undakada
Shadowmonk3y
KoiHaibane
LiquidSnake
Protobender
Mr.MiYuggi
Vinh
Mama Luigi
Geno
DM
Kn3ll
Dark Stool
Alfalfa
Dekoi
Crit Goes Where?!?
Boba Fett

Maps:

Traditional Control Point:

Official:

cp_Badlands:

cp_Granary:

cp_Well:

cp_Fastlane:

cp_Yukon:

Custom:

cp_Resonance:

cp_Freight:

cp_Follower:

Stopwatch Maps:

Official:

cp_Gravelpit:

Custom:

cp_Furnace Creek:

cp_Broma:

Capture The Flag:

Official:

ctf_Turbine:

Payload:

Custom:

pl_Waste:

Above are the rules and maps with which we will play.

[Dark_Stool]

.
..

That might actually make me want to apply.

..
.

[3xtacy]

Updated my post with all of the 'serious' maps.

Note:  The custom maps are all linked to fpsbanana for more information!

[Combat Wombat]

I hope this gets off the ground, but we need a bit of interest first.

[3xtacy]

Yeah, I'm really hoping it does.  

We should probably keep a list of all the people willing to participate..


So far:
3xtacy
Combat Wombat



Are we safe to assume that Liq, dom and miyuggi are up for it?


Also, are we going to adopt the 'serious' structure?

1 Medic
1 Demoman
2 Soldiers
2 Scouts

And one of the scouts and one of the soldiers can switch to another class (first come first serve).

Like.. if you are picked you can say you want to be a sniper or something and then the next person picked for your team decides he or she will just be a scout, then the next person decides he or she wants to be a pyro, then the next people are locked into the remaining classes that they have to choose from.

Something..  we need a plan to structure everything.

[3xtacy]

Okay.. I have tried to create some sort of structuring for this considering we want to play to have fun still.

Classes are free reign, but here is a limit of one demoman, one medic, one engie and no more than two of each class.

We will pick teams by having a pug (Pick Up Game).  Two team leaders will melee battle with the same class.  The player who wins will get first pick and they switch back and forth until everyone spectating is picked for a team.  At this time each team will situate their class picks using team chat.  When everyone is ready the games will start and we will play on whatever maps we choose.

If we want to switch up the team a bit, the top and bottom players of both teams will switch.


If anyone has any suggestions, ideas or comments feel free to post.

<3.

[SquidPron]

Haha. I can just see myself as the last person who nobody wants to pick and the loser gets stuck with. Frak yeah.

[3xtacy]

Haha. I can just see myself as the last person who nobody wants to pick and the loser gets stuck with. Frak yeah.

Pff!

[Creep Gnome]

Include me, too. Some real gameplay instead of Orange_X Sniper jerk-fests sounds like fun.

Also, if we're trying to get into comp play, we might as well play by the normal rules:
No crits
No damage-spread
Only one demoman, medic
Only 2 soldiers, scouts
Not sure about limits on other classes.

[Dominator]

if you guys are serious let me know because im really close to dropin that server due to money and nobody playing on it.

Word?

[3xtacy]

Include me, too. Some real gameplay instead of Orange_X Sniper jerk-fests sounds like fun.

Also, if we're trying to get into comp play, we might as well play by the normal rules:
No crits
No damage-spread
Only one demoman, medic
Only 2 soldiers, scouts
Not sure about limits on other classes.

I don't think we are trying to get into comp play, but we may if this idea develops into that.

Personally, I think we should start closer to my idea to allow people to get a feel for it.  Then, if we like it, we can make it a bit more like real competitive play and possibly further our interests into actual tournaments.  

However, I like the no crits idea.

@dom:

I am serious about this and I will run with this idea to the end if you think it is a good enough reason to keep the server.





Also, do we only include current TD members, or anyone who is affiliated with the community?

[Shadowmonk3y]

oh yeah shit just got real,

[3xtacy]

I updated my first post with all of the maps (links are in the names of the maps), gametypes (links to information about the gametypes are in the names of the gametypes), rules, which are still subject to change, and the list of participating members.

If you wish to participate please post here specifically stating that you wish to participate.

Again, any suggestions or ideas that will help this project are more than welcome.  If you have any questions or problems feel free to ask.


Also, what does everyone think about not having random crits?



*** Edit:

Please read over the rules and help us fix anything that is wrong with them.

The restricted weapons list is a list of unlockable weapons that I deem as too powerful for a 6v6.  If anyone disagrees with this list please make a post stating which you disagree with and why.

If there are any other problems please post stating why you think something should be changed.

[3xtacy]

Regarding bad sportsmanship:

If a player has bad sportsmanship I recommend that he or she either contains it or he or she will not be asked to play with us again.  I am hoping for the full cooperation of everyone in having fun with this project, and if it escalates into anything out of hand Dom can end it as soon as it was started. 

I am going to recommend that we keep 'alltalk' off to make sure that nobody has the urge to say anything that disrupts gameplay.  I am also going to encourage every player to respond to the end of the game with nothing other than "Good Game" or "GG" despite the outcome.

I know people can be competitive, but we are doing this to have fun, not to prove who is best.  If you are good or bad, who cares?  You can have fun in a relaxed competitive environment playing the game the way other people play it.  This is primarily going to be an experiment and learning experience, and I am hoping it all goes over smoothly.

If you don't have good sportsmanship I cannot guarantee that you will be picked to play.  Keep this in mind and remember, it doesn't matter if you win or lose.  It's just for fun.



Also, on a side note:

We will probably end up balancing the teams after a few rounds (top and bottom players switch on both teams).  This will help keep the teams fair.

[Mama Luigi]

No pyros? :'C

Oh well, soldiers my 2nd favorite class.

[Undakada (UOM)]

I'm in
can virus be on the other team pl0x?

[LiquidSnake]

pick a day and ill let you know if i can play

[Creep Gnome]

No crits and no damagespread are a must. It makes it into a game of skill, not "that demo happened to get lucky and did enough damage to one-shot me"

[StaFForD]

should totally just do a team of 6 medics...

just saying

[3xtacy]

No pyros? :'C

Oh well, soldiers my 2nd favorite class.

There are two wildcard spots.  If you get one of them (meaning everyone else has already fulfilled the necessary roles of 1 scout, soldier, medic and demoman) then you can be a pyro.

No crits and no damagespread are a must. It makes it into a game of skill, not "that demo happened to get lucky and did enough damage to one-shot me"

Added to proposed changes.

I'm in
can virus be on the other team pl0x?

Have virus post here to tell us he is interested please.  Added you to the interested list.

pick a day and ill let you know if i can play

Right now we are trying to set everything together.  I am assuming it will take about a week or two to set everything straight and to give everyone a heads up as to the first games.  

should totally just do a team of 6 medics...

just saying

Srs play is srs!  Limit is two of each class to a team, one of medic, engie or demo.

<3.

I haven't slept in a few days so I'm going to crash.  Byeeeeee.


Edit:

First.. we really need some opinions on the rules so far.  I want you guys to focus on helping us structure this before we worry about playing.  If we try to play and it fails because of lack of preparation it will be a disappointment! 

Some questions that need to be answered:


Which rules do we keep, which do we get rid of?

Are the restricted classes and weapons fair?

Are we letting everyone play or just clan members?


Please, everyone who is interested in playing with us.  Take some time to answer these questions on here.

<3.

[Protobender]

i would lik being in this if people who aren't in the clan are allowed, i would say add backburner to restricted weapons list but just my opinion

also i dont think that huntsman should be allowed but just an opinion

[Shadowmonk3y]

huntsman

auto-aim

[Creep Gnome]

Don't allow Sandman. Nobody should be able to negate an uber.
Allow 2 Soldiers or Scouts, if the 2 'wild card' players want them.

[Dr.BlackDick]

If you are going to do a comp setting why not just copy the rules from STA it will be much more simple. which is 2 of every class except medic and demo only sandman is banned and you can get my modifyed complay.cfg's on my mediafire here http://www.mediafire.com/?hgmduu1nboj. and for the hell of it I would love to spectate/referee this game and record the footage I could even help set it up(which could require me having admin on the old server).

[KoiHaibane]

I wouldn't mind participating. I would just need to know what day and when it's going down. I have a new job that needs me 8-5, M-F. Plus I'm also working on my freelance art gig so ya. Let me know when this shindig is going to kick off.

[Bungie]

*All the stuff 3xtacy said, which has been deemed too much to reread.*

Aahahahaha. ahahahahha. AHAHAHAHAHAHA. You showed 4 good maps and then its like holy shit wtf.  Also these rules in my opinion are retarded for i have played competetive games myself and right now only the sandman is banned. there isnt just gonna be only 1 of each class. thats BORING as much as it is stupid. 2 of each is a better limit. you dont HAVE to play Demo Scout Soldier Medic just because they are the best classes. you can play whatever the hell you want. 1 class limit on demoman and medic thats it. Demoman is most powerful, 2 medics would be fucked up. However. i am in this if it happens and you make the rules less retarded. just gib me a time.

[Shadowmonk3y]

i shall join the fray, sign me up

[Creep Gnome]

Why the hell is natascha a 'restricted' weapon?

[3xtacy]

Above are the rules and maps with which we will play.

Aahahahaha. ahahahahha. AHAHAHAHAHAHA. You showed 4 good maps and then its like holy shit wtf.  Also these rules in my opinion are retarded for i have played competetive games myself and right now only the sandman is banned. there isnt just gonna be only 1 of each class. thats BORING as much as it is stupid. 2 of each is a better limit. you dont HAVE to play Demo Scout Soldier Medic just because they are the best classes. you can play whatever the hell you want. 1 class limit on demoman and medic thats it. Demoman is most powerful, 2 medics would be fucked up. However. i am in this if it happens and you make the rules less retarded. just gib me a time.

That is the official map list for tourneys.  The reason I suggested that you need to fulfill the scout, soldier, medic and demoman positions is to make it more like real serious play.  The limit to a class is two.

Again, everyone... Instead of insulting me just try to put forth suggestions... would make this loads easier.

Took off everything but the sandman.

Don't allow Sandman. Nobody should be able to negate an uber.
Allow 2 Soldiers or Scouts, if the 2 'wild card' players want them.

Two of soldier and scout is allowed.  Two of any class is allowed except demoman, medic and engineer.  This means that one of the wildcards can be a soldier or a scout, they could both be a pyro, heavy, sniper, or spy, or any of those classes.

[Combat Wombat]

It will be very easy if we just copy tourney rules, as JSP suggested, including restrictions on the number of each class. I don't know if we should force people into playing the common tourney classes, but it seems the gameplay style and maps tend to play to the strengths of teams that do play those classes. The idea here is to encourage more teamwork and strategy than we normally find in our pub server, but in a friendly environment where we can all get used to the more structured style of play. Frankly, I'm getting frustrated with the lack of cooperation I see in regular servers, so I'd like to be able to strategize and expand myself a little bit. Oh, and Dom, I'm sure we can find people who are willing to donate to keep the old server alive, if that's what it takes. I know I will, if this has enough interest.

[KoiHaibane]

Aahahahaha. ahahahahha. AHAHAHAHAHAHA. You showed 4 good maps and then its like holy shit wtf.  Also these rules in my opinion are retarded for i have played competetive games myself and right now only the sandman is banned. there isnt just gonna be only 1 of each class. thats BORING as much as it is stupid. 2 of each is a better limit. you dont HAVE to play Demo Scout Soldier Medic just because they are the best classes. you can play whatever the hell you want. 1 class limit on demoman and medic thats it. Demoman is most powerful, 2 medics would be fucked up. However. i am in this if it happens and you make the rules less retarded. just gib me a time.

Why do you feel like you need to be a jackass? If you think this will be boring compared to YOUR standards, don't participate. Simple. Why ruin our fun with your bad attitude?

[Dr.BlackDick]

You know that the reason people run 2 scoots 2 solderps 1 demo 1 medic is because each of those classes with the exception of the medic have a form of advanced movement and are the most versatile classes when it comes to a/d and are great in almost every situation. They aren't forced to play that way its just smart to, and some times you will see a fungineer on defense that's just to speedbump the other team giving you more time to complete the objective on your go at offence.

[Mr.MiYuggi]

i'll do this

[3xtacy]

It will be very easy if we just copy tourney rules, as JSP suggested, including restrictions on the number of each class. I don't know if we should force people into playing the common tourney classes, but it seems the gameplay style and maps tend to play to the strengths of teams that do play those classes. The idea here is to encourage more teamwork and strategy than we normally find in our pub server, but in a friendly environment where we can all get used to the more structured style of play. Frankly, I'm getting frustrated with the lack of cooperation I see in regular servers, so I'd like to be able to strategize and expand myself a little bit. Oh, and Dom, I'm sure we can find people who are willing to donate to keep the old server alive, if that's what it takes. I know I will, if this has enough interest.

True.  I guess we should just go ahead and do this.

[Mama Luigi]

I'm in as well.

[Vinh teh 1337]

I'm in for it. :{D

[3xtacy]

I'm in as well.

I'm in for it. :{D

Added.


Okay, I removed the required class picks, and the team examples.


Need feedback:

No random crits and no damage spread?
  I am all for this, opinions?

No changing classes until the end of the round.
  Not sure..

Balancing teams by switching the first and last player at the end of the match.
  I like this idea because it keeps everything more fair.

[Geno]

me too.

[3xtacy]

me too.

We now officially have 12 players who are willing to participate.

Once the structure is finalized, I say we schedule and give it a shot.

[Combat Wombat]

Need feedback:

No random crits and no damage spread?
  I am all for this, opinions?

No changing classes until the end of the round.
  Not sure..

Balancing teams by switching the first and last player at the end of the match.
  I like this idea because it keeps everything more fair.

I say yes to all three. Not being able to change class till round end means you have to really think ahead and decide what is best for your team and for the map.

We now officially have 12 players who are willing to participate.

Can't hurt to have some other people who are interested, just in case we can't all make it. Dark_Stool, should we count you in?

[Mr.MiYuggi]

I'm in for it. :{D

if vinh is in then i'm out...he'll kill me too much lol.






(just kidding for those of you too thick to realize it)

[3xtacy]

Can't hurt to have some other people who are interested, just in case we can't all make it. Dark_Stool, should we count you in?

Yeah, might as well get like 16.

[DM]

great idea guys, count me in!

[Dr.BlackDick]

You can change class at anytime that rule is fucking retarded if you implement it. You just cannot go over the class limit or your team forfeits.

No crits and no random damage is a must for serious play.

Team's are picked by the captains once a match is over you can divy up the players with two new captains any other way would be retarded.

These are my opinions.

[Creep Gnome]

You can change class at anytime that rule is fucking retarded if you implement it. You just cannot go over the class limit or your team forfeits.

^That. Why should we NOT be able to adapt to the situation by changing classes?

[Combat Wombat]

You can change class at anytime.

No crits and no random damage is a must for serious play.

Team's are picked by the captains once a match is over you can divy up the players with two new captains.

Why should we NOT be able to adapt to the situation by changing classes?

Okay, that makes sense. We're definitely willing to take advice from the more seasoned comp players.

[Bungie]

Aahahahaha. ahahahahha. AHAHAHAHAHAHA. You showed 4 good maps and then its like holy shit wtf.  Also these rules in my opinion are retarded for i have played competetive games myself and right now only the sandman is banned. there isnt just gonna be only 1 of each class. thats BORING as much as it is stupid. 2 of each is a better limit. you dont HAVE to play Demo Scout Soldier Medic just because they are the best classes. you can play whatever the hell you want. 1 class limit on demoman and medic thats it. Demoman is most powerful, 2 medics would be fucked up. However. i am in this if it happens and you make the rules less retarded. just gib me a time.

Why do you feel like you need to be a jackass? If you think this will be boring compared to YOUR standards, don't participate. Simple. Why ruin our fun with your bad attitude?

Sorry.

[Dominator]

Alright I just checked with gameservers and what my payments are on them.  Basically the server is coming up for more payments which I really don't want to pay for.  There are also still some funds on there but I would really like to cancel with game servers and if anything if you guys really want this we can set this up on the test server since it holds 12 players and I doubt there will be more than 12 players.  Unless you guys really really want this I could just purchase another server, most likely not with gameservers since they over charge which is also why I don't want to pay the bill.

[Combat Wombat]

Sent you a PM, Dom.

*edit* Somehow I skipped over the part about hosting this on the test server. I suppose we could do that, but wouldn't that bog down your internet connection?

[3xtacy]

So, do we all agree on no random crit damage, no damage spread and allow changing classes in game?

[Creep Gnome]

I don't really care what server we do it on, but I'll need the address for the test server if we're doing it there.

[kn3ll_]

i am INTERESTED.

[Combat Wombat]

So, do we all agree on no random crit damage, no damage spread and allow changing classes in game?

This seems to be standard for comp play, so let's do it. I'm sure none of us casual players will mind.

[3xtacy]

So, do we all agree on no random crit damage, no damage spread and allow changing classes in game?

This seems to be standard for comp play, so let's do it. I'm sure none of us casual players will mind.

Okay... looks like we have the general idea of what we're doing.  Should we start scheduling?

Any other changes that need to be made will probably be addressed after the first night we do this.  I say let's try it and then see if anything is wrong.

[Dark_Stool]

.
..

If non-{TD} members are allowed, I would like to be included.

..
.

[3xtacy]

.
..

If non-{TD} members are allowed, I would like to be included.

..
.

Added.

[Combat Wombat]

Yes, let's get some dates for a trial run. Will weekends work best for most people? And what times? We're all in different time zones, so this may be tricky. Post or PM 3xtacy or me with your preferred days and times, and let's get this thing going!

[Creep Gnome]

Not on a Friday, if possible.

[kn3ll_]

Weekends, a little past midday, preferably. What about teams? Random assign?

[Dominator]

so far here is what I have going for the serious server

//TF2 Tournament Mode

mp_tournament 1
tf_damage_disablespread 1
tf_tournament_classlimit_2
UTIL_IsCommandIssuedByServerAdmin 1
tf_weapon_criticals 0

IP = 64.53.216.149

temp pass will be "test" for now

[3xtacy]

I'm going to go ahead and say ..


Saturday at 6 PM EST?

Let us know if this is a bad time and when it would be preferred.

[Combat Wombat]

That's not really good for me since it's 3PM PST and I'm still working. If we have a few days and times per week though, we may be able to make it work. Those who can't make it one day can play another day. Also, if we don't have enough players on a given night, participants should be able to invite people from their friends list to fill any voids, assuming everyone's okay with that.

[DM]

weekend nights would work best for me, any night during the week is also OK but weekend nights are better

[3xtacy]

Saturday night at 10 PM EST? 

[KoiHaibane]

That should work for me. I'll let you guys know if I can't make it ahead of time.

[Mr.MiYuggi]

Saturday night at 10 PM EST? 

lets see that would be....right around me still being at work/ this saturday i have a concert i'm playing

[Alfalfa]

FUCK WHY DIDN'T I SEE THIS THREAD EARLIER?

IS IT TO LATE TO SIGN UP?

[Combat Wombat]

Saturday night at 10 PM EST?  

That'd work perfectly for me.

FUCK WHY DIDN'T I SEE THIS THREAD EARLIER?

IS IT TO LATE TO SIGN UP?

No, of course not. I'll add you to the list.

[Alfalfa]

fuckin right.


dibs on medic

[kn3ll_]

I'll be there, with much Heavy.

[Protobender]

ill try to be there, dunno if ill be there in time so i will might be a little late
i'd enjoy being able to try out tourney play
ten to one says ill either be pyro, but if not ill be medic

[KoiHaibane]

I got dibs on Demo :3

[Mama Luigi]

I call pork-army soldier! Or just a regular one.

[Shadowmonk3y]

NO I AM SOLDERP!

[Creep Gnome]

Anything that isn't demo. I suck at demo.

[Dekoi]

Can I still participate?

[Combat Wombat]

Definitely, I'll add your name. It's good to have extras in case people can't make it.

[Creep Gnome]

So, are we doing this this Saturday? At 10PM Eastern Time?

[Combat Wombat]

That'll be the official time. Let's hope enough people show.

[Alfalfa]

kritzkrieg 4 lyfe

[LiquidSnake]

i dont think ill be around then

[3xtacy]

Kk, so we will try it tomorrow at 10 PM EST.  If not enough people show up we will try to get more people in through friends.  We will also probably rethink the time frame during which we do this.

Also, now you guys don't have to download cp_yukon, because it was added to tf2 in the classless update.

[Dominator]

tomorrow is really bad because of the updates since nothing has been tested and I doubt I'll be around because of the Air and Water show.  Plus I'd bet a lot of mods that we are using for this don't work anymore.

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

Why would we need mods for a scrim?

Isn't that the point of micro-play?

[StaFForD]

mods for keeping the rules like the limit of two of each class to a team, one of medic, engie or demo maybe?

[KoiHaibane]

So is the scrim canceled tomorrow? I kind of need to know ahead of time.

Also: Since I'm in Arizona, who doesn't participate in daylight savings, I am unsure of when I need to appear in game. You said 10pm EST right? I tried looking it up, but I don't know if it's 2 or 3 hours ahead. I don't mean to sound retarded, but I want to make sure I appear on time. I've had problems appearing in fun night because of this reason. When I think it's the right time it usually isn't. Regardless if there is a scrim tomorrow, I would like to know for future reference. Thank you sooooooo much.

[Dominator]

Yea Crit I modded the server for the rules you guys wanted, me and combat tested them out.  Unless you guys can got along fine with no mods.

[Combat Wombat]

I say we try it anyway. And Koi, I believe right now Arizona is at the same time as Pacific time, so it'll be 7PM for us West Coasters.

[Protobender]

i forget, where is this?
the test server right?

[Combat Wombat]

Yes.

[KoiHaibane]

I say we try it anyway. And Koi, I believe right now Arizona is at the same time as Pacific time, so it'll be 7PM for us West Coasters.

Thank you

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

I signed up with wombat 2 days ago.  Why my name no on list?

[DM]

guys, i'll be a little late (~ 10:15pm EST) since we're going to see harry potter tonight
hope its OK

[3xtacy]

Starts in 1 hour, please leave a message if you are unable to make it.

[Dominator]

Test server decided to die.  I have no idea why, I can't even get on ftp to transfer the files.  For now use the old server 8.12.18.162 the password is "comp" to get in and play.  I have no mods on there since none were tested so it's up to you guys to get along properly, I will give the rcon password to the admins.

*edit I think it's an ISP problem, it comes back on and off so don't use the test server, stick with old server as it's working fine.*

[Protobender]

cant make it, bro hogging laptop so sorry guys
ill make it next time

[3xtacy]

Great games today guys.  Really great fun.  

I want to thank combat for posting this in the first place, and Jsp for helping us put it all together.

Was a great experience and I hope it comes time and time again for a while to come.  









<3333333333.  Glad we could make this work.  Cheers.


Edit:  Also, cp_yukon is an amazing map.  I recommend it to everyone.

[Crit Goes Where?!?]

In my defense I had just joined in the last minute.

[omfgcows]

Crit you did really good in the second round
i still hate you for being the only bastard that could actually kill me when we were on B


but seriously, AMAZING night
and Yukon is THE serious night map.